Gun Control Question

[seldear]

As I understand it, Australia has relatively strict gun control laws. I'm not sure exactly what those laws are, never having required the use of a firearm. (Any of the Aussies know?)

US Constitution's Second Amendment? Gun registration?

And where do you stand on the matter of "the right to bear arms" and why? Would love to hear from all sides of the fence and the pond.

Comments

[angelsasha.livejournal.com]

Guns are for killing. That's what they were designed and built for. If you have no need to kill, you have no need for a gun. By which I mean "you need to not have a gun" (subtly different to "you do not need to have a gun").

If you are a police officer or a member of the armed forces, you may need a gun for your work. So your work provides you with one. That's fine.

If you are a farmer you might need a gun to protect your livestock or crops. So you buy one and register it through strictly controlled channels. That's fine.

The only reason I could think that someone would own a gun and not need it for killing is people who shoot for sport (target practise). I'd never want to shoot a gun for sport, but I guess I don't have an issue with people shooting target practise if they want to. So you buy and register one through strictly controlled channels and you keep it at a gun club, not in your home. That's fine.

There is no other reason that springs to mind for which anyone should ever be allowed to have a gun.

[skydiver119.livejournal.com]

I don't know all the ins and outs because, well i don't have a gun, don't want a gun so i don't care. :)

but i believe that there are limits as to the type of guns that your 'average joe' can possess, the high powered nasty stuff, along with some ammunition that's never gonna be used for hunting but is 100% anti people.

there are supposed to be controls in place. background checks and the like before you can have a gun. also you're supposec to be registered and have a license.

but, just like illegal drugs, there are illegal guns. and those can't be controlled largely because we import so frakking much and have so much border to watch that it's impossible short of turning the country into an armed state.

things like this virgina tech always bring up gun control...but the control is there and he bought his gun legally. sure, there were warning signs that this man had issues...but unti he actually does something, there wasn't anything they could do. You can't lock a person up for life because they might go nutters. and you can't ban tehm from buying weapons for the same reason.

and if he really wanted a gun, there are plenty of illegal ones around. you just gotta know where to go.

our 'right to bear arms' came from us being the rebels and fighting for our freedom hundreds of years ago, and it'll never change. And no matter how much people try to control it, it'll never be controlled.

and for every case like cho's there's a 'robbery averted because bystander had a licensed weapon and shot the robber' case. (we just got concealed carry passes, legally - with a license and permit - i could walk the streets with a gun in my bag...of course every building also has the right to put up a 'no guns allowed' sign and i'd have to NOT bring my gun into the building...so our concealed carry is basically little more than teh right to carry them outside and on public property)

I grew up with guns in the house. my dad had a lot of them. We were taught not to play with them, they weren't toys and we respected that.

in some cases it's not gun control taht needs to be done, but gun education. and people like cho are gonna hurt people. he's smart enough, had he not been able to get a weapon he'd have done something else...last time i looked you could get step by step instructions for making bombs on the net

[marag.livejournal.com]

::sigh:: I think it's very complicated, but I'm a big fan of registering. You need to register with the state to own and drive a car, so at the *very* least, gun owners should have to register and be checked out before they buy a gun.

I'm not opposed to hunting and such, but there's no reason for the average person to need to own a semi-automatic weapon or kevlar-piercing bullets.

[sjhw-tolerance.livejournal.com]

Pretty much what D said. I have to stand by our Bill of Rights and the right to bear arms.

It gets to be too simplistic to lay the blame for what happened on the supposed 'easy' availability of guns in the US and Virginia in particular. That poor boy would have managed to find a way to carry out his plan whether he bought his guns legally or not.

[havocthecat]

Interesting. The issue's so fricking huge in the States that I can't imagine not having at least a basic idea of what the legal issues are surrounding possessing a firearm.

At the very least, I'd think you might want the knoweldge for writing purposes. :) I made my brother take me out to the range and show me how to use a handgun one day so that I could at least write it halfway accurately. (He was a small arms instructor at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy before he became an officer.)

[shallanelprin.livejournal.com]

Second Amendment was put in place basically so the citizens could overthrow the government (like we did to England) if such a need ever occurred. I don't really see that happening anytime soon.

As for gun registration - I'm all for it. I think you should prove that you actually know how to handle a firearm before you're allowed to buy one as well.

The amusing thing to me is people always call for more gun control, but fail to realize most of the gun laws on the books are rarely enforced. Passing more law does no one any good if there's no follow through. Personally, in the States I think all stricter gun control laws are good for is keeping guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. The criminals don't care that the law says and if they want a gun, they're darn well going to get one. The only place extremely restrictive gun laws work is in countries where there are literally no guns to be had. It would take a lot of time, effort and money as well as people being willing to fork over their firearms for that to happen in the US.

As for what happened at Virgina Tech - if he couldn't have gotten a gun maybe he would have just killed himself or maybe he would have built a bomb. There's no way of knowing.

[tv-elf.livejournal.com]

Agreed. Well, except I didn't grow up with guns. Dad was a Reservist, but kept that aspect mostly out of the house. (He did manage to hook me on MREs.)

I'm not a fan of guns, but there are times and places where they are needed.

"Gun control" is as real as the Easter Bunny in my mind. We like to tell ourselves that if we just add this one more hoop to jump through, things like Virginia Tech won't happen. That can be a dangerous fallacy. If you want a gun, you can get one. And, as we just learned, it isn't all that strict.

Do I wish guns didn't exist? Sure. But I will defend a person's right to have one.

[tv-elf.livejournal.com]

Oh, give the Supreme Court time... They have just erased another women's right. They'll get to this too. ;)

Hmm, did I say that out loud?

[slm76.livejournal.com]

Given recent events, I feel everyone needs to have proper training before they're even near a gun and that it should be illegal to hand someone a gun who's not had the proper training. My neighbour was killed in a shooting accident just a few weeks ago by a kid who'd never handled a gun before.

Members of my family have guns. On each occasion, when I've gone to their homes, the guns have been locked up in a lockable gun cabinet. Heath has been brought up in a hunting environment. Everyone has to go through a Hunter Safety course before they get a hunting license.

For hunting, a shotgun or something equivilent is okay. Provided, of course, that a person had had a background check and proper training. It ought to be like driving a car, or something.

Would I ever handle a gun myself? Probably not. Would I be okay with Heath having one, like his father and his uncles own guns? Sure. I know he'd keep it locked up. Like I said, he was raised in a family that goes hunting and regularly has the kids go through the Hunter Safety course. My sister-in-law's husband is a state trooper and he bought his wife a gun. They go to the range sometimes. But whenever I've been there, I've never seen the weapons; they keep them out of the way of the child.

What I cannot understand is the fascination with automatics and semi-automatics. No one needs those except the military, surely.

The VT killer bought his weapons legally. There's the problem; the lack of controls and laws on gun shops and gun shows. If he bought it recently, there should have been a check on police reports and mental health. Except, for the fact that health issues are confidential. And goodness knows many people think their privacy is more important than someone's life being at stake.

Ultimately, the question is, is there a way to stop the likes of Cho purchasing weapons legally without hindering the regular Joe who goes deer-hunting with his buddies every November?

[seldearslj.livejournal.com]

Actually, amilyn took me range-shooting the last time I was in Chicago.

I can see how that kind of power might be addictive - the adrenaline rush of shooting was a little scary - and that was just at paper targets.

But, yeah, I'm a little interested in the rules about owning a handgun in the US.

[seldearslj.livejournal.com]

I also find myself wondering a little about the cultural divide between the Brits/Aussies and the Americans in this angle.

Most of the Americans that have answered below are for gun ownership that isn't necessarily linked to work (police, farmer) or sport (hunting, target practise).

[seldearslj.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm not laying the blame anywhere. The kid was clearly not right in the head. But some of the debates rising up make me curious - and the culture of 'the right to bear arms' is one that I'm trying to wrap my head around.

Personally, I feel no need for a weapon, but I live in a relatively 'safe' area of town. I'd be interested in the opinions of someone who lived in a less 'safe' area - say the south-west - somewhere where there's a higher incidence of crime and a greater proportion of physical endangerment to an individual.

[seldearslj.livejournal.com]

So the present situation is that people can own a gun, but the state doesn't have to know that they own a gun?

Is that what you mean by registering?

[beatrice_otter]

Do you know why there's a second amendment? In case the government fails to respect the first one.

There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

Do you know why there's a second amendment? In case the government fails to respect the first one.

So true!

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

The only reason I could think that someone would own a gun and not need it for killing is people who shoot for sport (target practise).

What about self-defense?

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

Pretty much agree with these guys (OMG).

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

You need to register with the state to own and drive a car, so at the *very* least, gun owners should have to register and be checked out before they buy a gun.

And yet there's no explicit right to private transportation in the Constitution ;)

Registering will never pass for the same reason a national ID won't... Americans are cagey about their privacy, especially when it comes to the govt. Must be some holdover from the Revolution ;)

I don't have a gun, but if I did I would not necessarily want (1) a government agency to tell me if I'm good enough with it to be allowed to own it, or (2) for a government agency to be able to pull up a list of gun owners in the country and see me there. Why? Because I don't.

Also -- yes, people DO have to register to own a car, and pass a test to drive it, and yet how many kagillions of car accidents are there in the US?

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

No offense, but I could sooo tell you were from Canada before I even checked your profile ;)

The Constitution is very clear -- you can practice a religion, even if it's stupid... you can stand on the sidewalk and tell people the end is near without being arrested... you can protest whatever the hell you want as long as you do it peacefully... and you have the right to bear arms. The colonists didn't write that INTO the Constitution so they could get rid of the British -- that's completely backwards.

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

My neighbour was killed in a shooting accident just a few weeks ago by a kid who'd never handled a gun before.

I'm sorry for your neighbor's family, but that wasn't the gun's fault... it was the fault of the person who decided to handle a gun without familiarizing themselves or, if they're a minor, the people who gave the gun to him.

People love comparing gun ownership to gun ownership, but they're completely different -- there is no right to drive (or ride a horse or buggy or the 18th century equivalent) in the Constitution.

Until there is better communication between agencies and departments (and doesn't THAT sound familiar) there will be incidents like this.

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

Gee, I missed the amendment having to do with late-trimester abortions...

Hmm, did I say that out loud? ;)

[tv-elf.livejournal.com]

And yet there's no explicit right to private transportation in the Constitution ;)

Snerk, try telling that to people in traffic court. Too many people believe driving is a right, not a liberty.

[tv-elf.livejournal.com]

Civil liberties... constitutional rights... give them time.

[marag.livejournal.com]

I'm sure Thomas Jefferson would have supported car ownership ::grin::

If Americans are so cagey about our privacy, why are we allowing the government to tap our phones and get our library records? Not to mention, why is the government legislating who can marry? I'd rather the government tracked my gun ownership and stayed out of the phones, libraries, and marriage stuff.

And yes, there are car accidents, but believe me, there would be *more* if the government didn't have the right to stop Grandma Bessie who's 93 next Tuesday, and the guy who's just been convicted of drunk driving for the third time, and...

Neither cars nor guns are inherently evil, but in the wrong hands, they're very dangerous. The same can't be said for phones, library books, or marriage, except in a very extended metaphor.

To reiterate, I'm not against gun ownership. Hell, my sister's husband goes hunting regularly and I think that's fine: I don't think he's a danger to anyone except the deer in Garrett County, MD.

But I'd like to know that the registered sex offender who lives across the street from me (really, I'm not joking) doesn't have one, and if the cops find him with one, he'll go back to jail. I'd like to know that people with severe psychoses can't wander into a gun store when the voices tell them to, pick up a gun, and go shoot people.

[marag.livejournal.com]

I actually can't recall the present state of the law. I think that gun registration passed, so that the state *does* know. There's also a waiting period, so that Mr. Smith can't get pissed at his wife, go buy a gun, and go home and shoot her.

However, there's been enough back and forth on this issue, that I could be wrong.