thoughts on disappointed SJ shippers - SPOILERS for 'Threads'

[seldear]

It came upon the midnight clear...

I don't see why people got so het up about the 'no kisses or sex' thing. Everything they need to know about how Jack feels about Sam is contained in the 'viewing room' scene, where she thanks him for being there, and his only reply is, 'Always.'

At this point in time, his girlfriend has just broken up with him because she thinks he 'has issues' and wants to get out before she gets hurt. Sam's father's about to die, and she is still engaged to another man.

In the midst of all this, Sam is at her most frank and honest with him, talking about the father she never thought she'd know. She's losing one anchor in her life, and she's already shown she's not so sure about her relationship with Pete in the scene at Jack's house. So Jack reaches out to her with the only thing he can offer her at this juncture: his support as a friend. 'Always.'

Dear people, if that isn't a covenant of eternal love, then I honestly pity your perception of what love is! What the hell do you think someone is saying when they utter the wedding vow, 'till death do us part'? Sex and kisses are just the trappings (nice trappings, admittedly) but love - L-O-V-E, love - is so much more than that!

Besides, once she's free and he's free and Daniel and Teal'c have kicked them in the butt to get them over their hangups, they can have all the sex they want. And even if the writers never state it in the show (and their history of actually 'stating things outright' in the show is Not Good) then go pester your nearest and dearest fanfic writer for fic! That's what they're there for!

Comments

[alliesings.livejournal.com]

Preach it!

[matt1969.livejournal.com]

I'll take subtle rather than blatant any day of the week!

[skydiver119.livejournal.com]

you go girl!!!!!

I for one never expected, or frankly wanted, something explicit. I know these writers, they don't do romance well. tis best left in the hands of the folks who do itmore to my taste....ie the fan fic writers.

if they'd have had a tonsilsucking kiss on the ramp i woulda lost it.

I personally love the deep, soft kind of devotion we see between them

[amilyn.livejournal.com]

Indeed.

[dotsomething.livejournal.com]

if they'd have had a tonsilsucking kiss on the ramp i woulda lost it.

My worst nightmare of a shippy SamandJack fanfic is them smooching on the ramp while the rest of SG looks on and applauds. *shudders*

[sjhw-tolerance.livejournal.com]

Subtle is good. Subtle was excellent!

[jo-siris.livejournal.com]

Amen to that.

[mitai.livejournal.com]

See, I was so HAPPY to see that! Neither one of them had to compromise their honor, their integrity, their military training - but as plain as day, there it was. It was extremely well done. It would have made an exquisite end to the series.

The writers did good.

[amilyn.livejournal.com]

Yes. Very much so.

Icon in honor of it not applying here. *beam*

[webpetals.livejournal.com]

I am so with you on this one! Subtle is always more beautiful, more profound.

[pixiesio.livejournal.com]

Yup, I agree. They're not the types for declarations of undying love, at least not in the romance novel sense. That "Always" was as good as it'll get on the show, and I'm fine with that. As far as I'm concerned they're together now.

[beefree88.livejournal.com]

*blinks*
Please somebody explain to me why you ppl believe they will ever go beyond the really heartwarming platonic friendship they appear to have now?

[coltsbane.livejournal.com]

Because some of us aren't pessimistic about the matter.

[amilyn.livejournal.com]

I actually don't believe they will.

I believe they could.

I believe they might.

I believe that they might try to add romance to the mix and find that it's a really really really bad idea and their relationship doesn't work as romantic and that the high-stress-high-adrenaline nature of their jobs is what drove the emotional context of their relationship to seem more intense than friendship.

I think that their wonderful, non-sexual friendship could stay exactly that.

I also believe that the best long-term, successful, romantic relationships are actually EXACTLY that kind of friendship with romance as an extra, as an addition, as an extra layer.

And the romantic in me would love to see them have that TOO.

But like so many others are saying, what we've got here, what we see from them here in this moment, in so many other moments, is fine. It's enough for me. And if I fantasize that it could go farther, and if I like that possibility, then that's fine too...but it's not the Only Thing There Is, either.

I just love the two of them together as friends. If there's more, it's like a little extra goobiness for me, because I love to see lovers who are best friends first.

[dotsomething.livejournal.com]

Because I've watched tv for many many years now and that's how these things often work ;)

Okay, seriously, because I see chemistry between the actors (note that seeing the chemistry is a subjective thing)--which gives the characters this wonderful low hum of sexual tension, and consider along with that how much Sam and Jack clearly care about each other and would, literally, rather die than lose the other (as Jack himself once sort of said), I conclude they are an OTP.

[dotsomething.livejournal.com]

Yay! Word to that.

Can I just mention how I just melted into a puddle of shmoopy goo during that scene?

[beefree88.livejournal.com]

"So Jack reaches out to her with the only thing he can offer her at this juncture: his support as a friend. 'Always.'

Dear people, if that isn't a covenant of eternal love, then I honestly pity your perception of what love is! "

You just contradicted yourself, but never mind:)
Well,unless you're talking about eternal love as friends, which is indeed a great thing. Sometimes outlives any romantic kind of love.
Sex and kisses might be just the trappings, but friendship is essential yet not enough to utter the wedding wow. If it would be Jack and Teal'c would be married for years;)

[seldearslj.livejournal.com]

No, Mar, I haven't contradicted myself. I believe that love is not restricted to the romantic/sexual aspect of relationships.

Therefore, Jack can be said to love Teal'c as much as Sam. His love for Sam will manifest in a romantic/sexual/emotional way, but he would give his life for any of his team and put their well-being ahead of his own. That is the concept of love, if not the smooshy emotions.

[beefree88.livejournal.com]

Well,actually we don't know if his love will be manifested in a romantic way and friendship is not exactly big news. For all we know he realised that this will remain platonic forever, and settled for what he can get, being the surrogate father for Sam. Somebody who she can aways lean on without needing to give anything in return. Maybe he resigned to live in colibacy for the rest of his natural life anyway ;)
What we got to know is assurance that Sam was right about Jack in Grace, he intends to be there for her,always.
Which is lovely and honorable, but it's also getting back to square one, so I can see why those who expected them to be a couple might be disappointed.
Certainly if they ever go beyond friendship, we won't know about it.

[dotsomething.livejournal.com]

Even removing the sexual/romantic element, I think Jack loves Sam more than he loves Teal'c, in that he has a connection with Sam unique among any connection he has with the other characters. Just as his friendship with Daniel is unique and his friendship with Teal'c is unique. But the emotional element makes his connection to Sam stronger than his connection to any of the others.

Jack would die to protect Teal'c, or Daniel, or Gen. Hammond, or for his planet, just as he would die to protect Sam. But compounding that, with regards to Sam, is a lot of complex emotional stuff.

And then, since we don't have to ignore the romantic/sexual aspect since the canon itself has shown they are attracted to each other, I am once again left with: OTP.

Now, if they never get romantically involved (openly, I mean), I suppose it is not a canonical OTP, but I'm still left with Jack and Sam for the rest of their lives getting something from that friendship they can't get anywhere else.

(Side note, relevant to what I'm saying--during the X-Files I waffled between being a no-romo and a squealing shipper. But on the whole, it would have been fine with me if Mulder and Scully had each married other people; and I felt strongly that if she had married/become heavily involved with, other people, said Other People would be horribly jealous, not because they thought Mulder and Scully were cheating on them, but because Mulder and Scully's relationship would have a closeness to it that even a significant other might not attain).

[ruralstar.livejournal.com]

Dear people, if that isn't a covenant of eternal love, then I honestly pity your perception of what love is! What the hell do you think someone is saying when they utter the wedding vow, 'till death do us part'? Sex and kisses are just the trappings (nice trappings, admittedly) but love - L-O-V-E, love - is so much more than that!

Well said.

Ruralstar

*clappityclappityclappityclap*

[wiliqueen.livejournal.com]

:: smoooooooooooches you ::

Once again, yay for them for being GROWNUPS who know who they are!

Re: *clappityclappityclappityclap*

[amilyn.livejournal.com]

I love watching grown-ups.

Love.

[gate-girl.livejournal.com]

It always puzzles me why the hell people think that physical love (be it cuddles, kisses or sex itself) is the ultimate expression of love. To me (and I might just be a romantic dreamer with my head in the clouds here) love is about promising to be with someone through the good times and the bad, no matter what those may be; understanding and accepting a person for who they are and not who you believe or wish them to be; believing in someone when that person may not believe in him/herself; giving them courage, support and understanding when they need it, and being able to acknowledge a person's faults and failings while not condemning them for it. Most of all, I believe that love, true love, is reciprocal and without bounds. It is not bound up in physical expression or even verbal expression, if it comes to that. And in that sense, I believe that Sam and Jack have one of the truest loves depicted on screen. For them, friendship has always come before the possibility of romance, and I agree with what so many others here have stated - that the best lover will always be your best friend first. Sex is not necessary here. It would be nice, but it isn't necessary. I believe they made the ultimate commitment to each other long ago - to be there for each other "always".

[erica-w.livejournal.com]

I think some people may want the kiss/sex/whatever just for the absolute proof, no room for interpretation. Kinda hard to deny it when it was there for *all* to see.