non-whites

[seldear]

You know, I'd really love it if professional authors (and, hell, fanfic authors) took an interest in "those coloured people" on the Stargates - both SG1 and Atlantis. I haven't met a professional author yet who was interested in Teal'c, Teyla, or Ronon as anything other than sex fodder or background.

And, no, underdeveloped does not mean uninteresting.

And yes, I know the term "coloured" is an insult in the US. I'm using it deliberately to describe the mindset I see in professional (and fanfic) authors: "only the pretty white people count."

To tell you true, I'm freaking tired of it.

Comments

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

Playing devil's advocate...

Is it the fact that they're colored, or the fact that they are the 'outsiders' and therefore ostensibly the most difficult to write for?

I'm not saying it's a good excuse, I just feel compelled to point out stuff like this when people automatically take out the 'race card'.

BTW, I like your icon :)

[seldearslj.livejournal.com]

Well, there's certainly two layers there, in that all the coloured people in Stargate either start off as outsiders (Teal'c, Teyla, Ronon) or become outsiders (Ford). So part of it is certainly attributable to the way the characters are written on the show.

However, I personally feel that the argument of "they're just [insert differentiation here]" breaks down when we're talking about work derivative from the original canon - whether authorised (tie-in novels) or unauthorised (fanfic).

I mean, when people go on about how the like fanfiction because of the "ability to take the characters somewhere else", it would surely stand to reason that the characters least "taken somewhere else" would be the most attractive prospects, right?

Or am I not thinking in the appropriate herd-mentality? :)

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

You can definitely take characters like Teal'c and Teyla and Ronon somewhere else... but it takes more work. Your average white female writer from the US or UK or wherever has to go outside her cultural 'comfort zone' in a way I think has more to do with the characters 'outsiderness' than the fact that they were cast as colored people.

So for me, at least, the question isn't 'why don't people write more about Teyla or Teal'c or Ronon', but instead something like 'if Lorne was black, would people still write as much about him as they do'.

[seldearslj.livejournal.com]

If we're arguing that the trio's "invisibility factor" among fans is due to them being "an outsider" rather than the colour of their skin, then doesn't the fact that they're all "alien" mean that everyone who's from Earth (and I'm presuming that everyone in fandom is from Earth, although there are a few I'd happily disown) has to step outside their comfort zone to write them?

[sharp2799.livejournal.com]

For me, color isn't the issue. I'm a Jack/Sam shipper, that's what I read. (And am writing my very first Jack/Sam fic for a friend's birthday in August.)

[seldearslj.livejournal.com]

And I'm a Sam/Jack shipper as well. But my interest is not limited to just them: their relationship doesn't occur in a vacuum and the other characters are as important in the universe as they are - if in different ways.

When writing, I always - always - try to figure out a way to include Teal'c in any of my major stories. He provides a different viewpoint, an insight into Jack's history and Sam's spirit, an interaction or balance for whatever else is happening in the story, or an actor in the main thrust of the story.

It irks me to see authors - professional and fanfiction - completely ignore anything but their "chosen pair" or "chosen character", relegating all other characters to mere background, but particularly Teal'c, Teyla, and Ronon, whose backgrounds and histories would be far richer and more intricate than your typical Earth character.

I'd be happier conceding that maybe skin colour doesn't come into it, if only more people were willing to concede that maybe it does. Prejudice is not something easily identified in the self.

[sharp2799.livejournal.com]

Well, that's your choice to include whoever you want in your fics. But I don't immediately ascribe prejudice to a lack of Teal'c or Teyla in the fics I read. Personally, if Daniel interrupts one more time--!

Then again, i mostly read Jack/Sam smut....

:-)

[seldearslj.livejournal.com]

Well, my original point still stands. Whether or not I'm assigning prejudice to people, I'd still like to see writers - professional and fanfic - take an interest in "the coloured characters" of Stargate.

[sharim.livejournal.com]

You know, specifically on Teal'c - for so much of SG-1 he was essentially wall-paper and the quite hero, the one you saw and heard so little about. By the end of the show he was so much more developed, so he's easier to write now in general.

I think it's also a 'relating' thing. Most people can't relate to being aliens from different worlds trying to fit into Earth Culture.

Not to mention his ships weren't all the USTy and ZOMG GET TOGETHER already, so why would people write about him?

I try to write him; I like Teal'c. Once I even started a story on how he came to be who he is, but I gave it up because I knew so little about his history and culture it was too hard ;)

[arrietty.livejournal.com]

Indeed.

[sharim.livejournal.com]

*laughs*

[shallanelprin.livejournal.com]

Amen. I'd love to see more Teal'c, Teyla and Ronon centric stuff around. I occationally stumble across some freaking brilliant pieces, but not very often.

[gunhilda.livejournal.com]

Well, I just finished a Teal'c centric story. And I try to include women and minorities as supporting cast when I can.

It's difficult sometimes, though, because if you've got a character who is just passing through, it sometimes feels awkward to point out the color of their skin. I don't do a lot of vivid visual detail in my writing, so I haven't figured out how to do that gracefully and still make it sound natural. You can toss in ethnic names (Sanchez) or an accent, but accents are hard to do, too.

I do have to wonder if the lack of diversity in fanfic is a reflection of true prejudice or more one of oversight (and comfort). Is it a matter of "only the pretty white people count" or more "I am white and I am surrounded by white people, so that is what I am comfortable writing." I suppose you could argue that the latter is a form of (non-malicious) prejudice, but, to me, it doesn't necessarily reflect an attitude of superiority. It may just be thoughtlessness and/or a lack of awareness. Neither of which are good, mind you, but I think there is a difference between not understanding (or being uncomfortable with) "other" and actively disliking "other."

Whatever the cause, I agree completely that it is not a good thing, and it is a shame that most fanfiction does not provide a more diverse reflection of the world in which we live.

[seldearslj.livejournal.com]

it doesn't necessarily reflect an attitude of superiority. It may just be thoughtlessness and/or a lack of awareness.

See, it might not reflect an attitude of superiority, but it reflects a certain close-mindedness to me - and worse, an unwillingness to broaden one's horizons.

Thoughtlessness, I can forgive the first time. But in anyone who's regularly on the internet, I don't think the argument "lack of awareness" is any kind of excuse.

In my mind, anyone who watches the news with a brain cell and their thoughts half-switched on, who has any kind of concept of the world in which we presently live is aware of the "culture wars" and the degree to which race, class, nationality, and economic background are used to separate the "us" from "them".

And I think it should matter in the same way that it should matter that Sam, Teyla, Elizabeth, and Janet aren't repeatedly shown to be helpless wittle women needing rescue by the big strong men.

There's presently an argument going around about 'responsible fanfic writing'. While most people seem to be scrambling to defend their right to write whatever they please in whatever manner they please, I'm on the side for it.

I'm on the side of not glorifying rape; for showing the psychological effects of an incestuous relationship - not just the hawt sexx0rs of two guys who happen to be brothers, but the ways they justify, deal with, and struggle with the attraction, guilt, and shame; for writing persons of colour as heroes and important and mattering in the scheme of things, whether alien or human.

And it just seems to me that there are precious few writers - fanfic or professional - who bother.

[majorsamfan.livejournal.com]

I can't speak for others, but I'm a blonde woman in my 40s (for at least a few more months anyway) who's relatively intelligent and I enjoy Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping. And I'm in lust with RDA. So, yeah, when I read and when I write fanfic, I tend toward Sam and/or Jack-centric themes. I'm short and I like Janet too. :D

I don't dislike Teal'c by any stretch of the imagination; he's a fascinating character, though little utilized in canon the first five seasons as anything but a warrior machine. And I don't dislike Daniel (tho' don't get me started on Shanks!), but I rarely if ever write anything Daniel-centric either.

I don't believe it has to do with understanding the "coloured culture" because, frankly, Teal'c-Teyla-Ronon - they're all ALIENS, and we understand their culture pretty well from the show. And there's nothing terribly unique about Daniel's scholarly culture.

I'm just wondering if it's because the fanfic writers whose paths you've crossed relate best to Sam or Jack or Daniel and thus produce fics central on those characters.

Setting out to "write this wrong" (pun intended) seems to me almost like requiring affirmative action; a quota/percentage of Teal'c-Teyla-Ronon fics required for every so many Sam-, Jack- or Daniel-centric (or Sheppard-, McKay- or Weir-centric) fics.

Honestly, you are one of the best writers I know, and I can't point to your fics that focus on the "characters of colour", though they may (and probably do) exist. How *is* your record? Do you find you get less, or less positive, feedback on them?

I attended a library function last night; it happens at least once a year. A Random House marketing guy - markets to the independent bookstores in our area, not the giant discount stores - comes to our library and talks about a dozen books or so. He gives much more info than just a dust jacket, and he's well spoken; his part of the evening takes about an hour. A local independent bookstore brings copies of the books to the event for us to buy, and proceeds go to the adult literacy program for which I volunteer.

His selections are quite diverse! In last night's melange, the settings included:
Italy just after WWII
Japan (modern day)
17th Century court of Charles II
Missouri farm country, 50 years ago
Poor, Pennsylvania farmland
and half a dozen others.

The authors included first timers and 12th timers, and one of them was even on that plane that crashed in the Andes and was the subject of the book and movie "Alive!" He always has at least one of Indian (or nearby Asian) descent and others of "colour" or other cultures. He does a great job of including literary works and more commercial ones, non-fiction and fiction and other diversifying qualities. The people who attend are usually bookhounds who also participate in local book discussion groups, so their interests are varied.

But your typical person, the fan off the street of a show like Stargate, I'm guessing they're not as diversified in their focus and less adventurous to explore characters less like themselves. Or if they are, they aren't vocal enough to make their voice heard. Either that, or more "persons of colour" need to get engaged in the fandom AND in writing.

I need to run - tutoring in that adult literacy program - but I found your post thought-provoking. I definitely will consider my own fic prejudices, though I can't guarantee I'll do anything uncharacteristic about it, like run off and write a fic about Teal'c, Ronon and Teyla on a mission together...

Thanks for making me think.
:D