I suspect this is me not getting it again

[seldear]

I shouldn't. I really shouldn't. But...

Why does the appointment of Rick Warren to give the inauguration invocation mean Obama's turning his face against the GLBT community? Because Warren supported 'Yes on Prop 8', even if Obama didn't?

And yet clearly someone in his administration figured that, hey, we should include the GLBT community in the inauguration parade, because they tagged the Lesbian and Gay Band Association about being in it.

Exactly how is this disappointing campaign promises? Going back on his word? It's a damn invocation at the start of a ceremony, given by a man of the same faith that Obama lays claim to, even if they don't exercise their faith in the same way! And, yes, it can be considered a bone thrown to the right-wing conservatives.

However, last I knew, the USA had some 300 million citizens. In the end, Obama's gonna be POTUS for all of them, not just the ones you agree with.

Comments

[stargatedragon.livejournal.com]

he can't win for trying.

personally, I think he should have gone for the trifecta of a Rabbi, an Iman (Muslim, IIRC) and a Catholic priest in addition to Warren.

now THAT would have been something to see!

:D

[slm76.livejournal.com]

*shrug*

Warren DID invite both he and McCain to his church for that mega-interview thing. Some pundits said it was the best thing they saw all campaign season.

Fact is, Warren IS well-known. He's got that mega-church thing going on, and he and his wife do a lot of charitable work.

Plus, I suspect a lot of Christian ministers supported Prop 8 even if they couldn't state it publicly due to INS rules.

However, even having an invocation is a big no-no for some people, who believe it crosses the entire church/state divide. There's been controversy for years over the phrase "so help me, God," despite the fact that George Washington uttered it at the very first inauguration. Furthermore, there is also a huge thing in this country about whether or not a military chaplain should be able to "pray in Jesus' name." I wonder if Warren will invoke the name of Jesus in his prayer?

Finally, even in the campaign there were divisions between Obama and some of his staff. He would state something and then staffers would later say something like, "Obama actually means..." I suspect some staffers are upset that he is not going as much to the left as they wanted to believe he would. He's already upset a few folks just by keeping Robert Gates on as Secretary of Defence.

What's the adage about pleasing some people some of the time, but not all the people all the time?

[seldearslj.livejournal.com]

See, there are some things that go to the core of a job: ministers and priests and chaplains being able to pray 'in Jesus' name' is one of them.

This is probably akin to me not getting how my seasonal well-wishes are somehow oppressive to the person receiving them if they don't believe the same things I do. My 'Merry Christmas' isn't good enough for them to take the sentiment rather than focusing on the actual words? It's a 'spirit' vs 'letter' of the law there.

The other thing that I'm curious about: America has been led by a very conservative leader for the last 8 years. That isn't going to turn around overnight, simply because a more middle-of-the-road leader has come to power. A behemoth vehicle like the USA takes time to turn around.

[slm76.livejournal.com]

I just spotted a major booboo in my previous comment! I should have said IRS and not INS. Basically, churches can lose their tax-free status if they endorse a particular candidate or tell their congregation precisely how to vote.

See, there are some things that go to the core of a job: ministers and priests and chaplains being able to pray 'in Jesus' name' is one of them.

Exactly. This has raised such a stink that many Rabbis and Imans are siding with the Christian ministers. Particularly because the stink is being raised by an atheist section of the population. However, I've often heard the phrase, "There are no atheists in foxholes."

And no, things aren't going to change overnight. Sadly, many of his supporters thought things would. They thought that come November 5 things would be different. Many things are still very up in the air. There's even a senatorial seat that's still to be decided.

We've also got an economy that's sucking so badly that it's taking priority overthing else, which means there are topics that are taking a back seat which might be high on someone else's agenda, such as taxes and LGBT 'rights.' Money does still make the world go around, despite what Star Trek would tell us. Until the world gets its finances sorted, everything else is going to come second.

[shallanelprin.livejournal.com]

Exactly.

[lavidaessueno.livejournal.com]

The point is that Obama is supposed to represent, as you say, some 300 million citizens, and not just the ones he agrees with. Personally, I think Obama courted the American GLBT vote to get elected and has no intention of doing anything to change the current situation. The appointment of Rick Warren just confirms it.

I will say, though, that if Obama had chosen a minister who said that women or blacks or Jews were inferior and unnatural and not to be tolerated and didn't deserve the same treatment as everyone else, a whole lot more people might understand the anger that GLBT Americans feel over this.

[seldearslj.livejournal.com]

I understand the anger that GLBT Americans feel about this. I also hate it when someone I disagree with gets spotlight, limelight, and approval from someone I like and respect and who I thought liked and respected me.

However, I don't get how Obama choosing him to open the inauguration ceremony means "he has no intention of doing anything to change the current situation." To me, that's a big leap of logic.

This all reminds me of children carefully measuring how much is in each glass when a parent pours out a drink and complaining that they got a millimetre more, or calculating the value of birthday and Christmas gifts and claiming that she got a more valuable one that I did and that must mean you don't love me as much!

[lavidaessueno.livejournal.com]

A series of smaller actions can lead toward a general conclusion. This small action is part of a larger pattern that to me indicates that Obama will not do much to change things in our country for GLBT Americans. The blame is not entirely on him individually; the president can only do so much and must work together with the legislative branch, and I think he will use his influence on other matters. That is the way of American politics--however, I think Obama made a whole raft of promises he never intended to keep (and knew he wouldn't have to because they were beyond the scope of the executive branch).

[seldearslj.livejournal.com]

It might suggest that he has no intention of following through on his promises, sure.

But has he actually broken any promises yet?

In my experience - and with a good dose of Australian political cynicism - politicians make promises that they know will be broken, every election, every time. It's the nature of politics - as is the making of deals to get this or that through the legislative house.

[lavidaessueno.livejournal.com]

But has he actually broken any promises yet?

Yes, he has. Two that I know of. One involving taxes on "excessive profits" of oil companies, another involving limits on campaign financing (he refused public financing to avoid the constraints they would impose).

[beatrice_otter]

Yes. Exactly. As for the suggestion in the comments that he choose a rabbi, priest, and imam to get the whole religious trifecta in--Obama, of all President-elects the US has ever had, can't do that. See, there are some really nutso redneck fundies (and a surprising number of them) who truly believe that Obama is Muslim and only pretending to be Christian because he is black and has a name that isn't a standard European name. And those idiots are unfortunately a lot more widespread than GLBT community, which congregates certain areas, and hence a lot more likely to influence people who wouldn't normally give them any credence.

(For those of you who aren't American and are unfamiliar with the ways in which race, culture, and religion intersect, here's where the idiots get their "proof": back in the early stages of the Civil Rights movement many of the more radical members of the movement pointed out that Christianity had been imposed on their forefathers and was thus another remnant of slave-culture, and that if they'd stayed in Africa they would probably be Muslims (Pagans of some sort would have been at least as likely, if not more so, but a lot harder to pin down and not anywhere near as easy to sell--Islam at least worships the same God). And they certainly wouldn't be named things like John, Peter, Michael, Sarah, Jennifer, etc. So there was a fashion for Black people to change their names to something that sounded exotic (or at least start naming their children that way), and many Blacks did it, particularly those radical enough to embrace Islam. Now, for all the press the "converting to Islam" thing got in the sixties, it was only ever a very small fraction of the Black population. And they at least started out building their muslim faith mostly from books and not from finding actual people to teach them (because at the time there were few Muslims in the United States and travel to learn more was expensive). So as time went on, the number of Blacks converting to Islam slowed way down (and it was never a huge percentage of the population to begin with), and as they got in more and more contact with the Islamic community the ones who had done it mostly to go with the flow and protest the oppressive social structure tended to get weeded out. Meanwhile, the number of Blacks who gave their children "weird" foreign or made-up names has continued to grow, and by this point many of the most popular ones are actually fairly common within the Black community. So assuming that a Black person with a non-European name is Muslim is both incredibly racist and betrays complete ignorance of Black culture in America. It also betrays almost complete ignorance of Obama's history, because the reason he's got a non-European name is that his father was from Africa. But try telling the redneck idiot fundies that.

[seldearslj.livejournal.com]

Good point about Obama needing to establish his 'Christian' credentials to the redneck idiots. I didn't think of that.

On the whole, I was more surprised about the kerfuffle over Warren than I was about the appointment of Warren to give the inaugural invocation.

He's not going to hold office. He's not going to be dictating policy. He's just going to open the inauguration.

Maybe it indicates other things; maybe.

Right now, I'm seeing a storm in an inauguration teacup. There is hope that there'll be a rainbow afterward, but the storm has to bloody well end, first.

(How's that for mixed metaphors?)

[tracey-claybon.livejournal.com]

Thanks for bringing that point up - you're right... Along with that, the redneck assume that if you're Black, you have no education, no brains, and you are a druggie, violent, and if female, a prostitute, easy, or you were a mother before age 18...
oh - and you're out to take their jobs, women and rights away from them...

Keh... I wish you could have read the local newspaper and some of the racist vitriol they were spewing here in my old hometown... it'd curdle the milk, no joke... :(

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

Can you imagine the howls had he asked for Jeremiah Wright?

Haha, that would have been hysterical. Although since he kinda disowned Wright (eventually) during the campaign, I don't think that would have been very likely.

[seldearslj.livejournal.com]

Please, I'm just praying that something bad doesn't happen.

It's a little odd, but I seem to have muted that thought in my mind. It's there, but it's not a big concern to me. Which is rather foolish, actually.

If an Iraqi can get into a press conference and hurl two shoes at Bush without being stopped, then it's scary what could happen to Obama - even on American soil.

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

If an Iraqi can get into a press conference and hurl two shoes at Bush without being stopped, then it's scary what could happen to Obama - even on American soil.

Stilettos? Perhaps a Birkenstock or two?

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

Thanks allisnow, your comment really made me laugh.

Always happy to help...

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

Basically, Obama knows that the gay community, no matter how they bitch and whine, are going to support him in the end. Who else are they going to support -- a Republican? Hahaha. He can afford to piss them off, in other words.

As someone else pointed out, it's fairly easy to assume that most Christian ministers in the country supported Prop 8 at least in principal. Warren's opinion just made the news because he runs such a big church and is such a well-known guy.

Obama is a Christian, and Warren is a Christian, and has been 'courting' Obama for a while now.

And if I hear the gay civil rights = racial civil rights argument one more time, my head is going to explode.

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

Interesting article on the matter that I just ran across: http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/504326.aspx

[lavidaessueno.livejournal.com]

Basically, Obama knows that the gay community, no matter how they bitch and whine, are going to support him in the end. Who else are they going to support -- a Republican?

Had McCain chosen just about anybody but Palin, many of my gay friends might have done just that. A whole lot of people (myself included) did not vote for Obama because we think he was a good candidate; it's just that the alternative was worse.

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

And had McCain not picked somebody like Palin, who represents conservative views much better than someone like McCain, lots of conservatives wouldn't have voted for the ticket. It sort of cancels out.

[gunhilda.livejournal.com]

"And if I hear the gay civil rights = racial civil rights argument one more time, my head is going to explode."

Speaking of bitching and whining...

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

Not bitching OR whining... just a simple warning for those within the potential blast zone :D

[gunhilda.livejournal.com]

:) Awesome reply.

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I try.

[tracey-claybon.livejournal.com]

I personally think it's Obama's way of making good on that promise he made of being president for those who didn't support him...

Somehow, I don't see McCain, if he'd won, inviting a Unitarian minister, or a imam, to give the convocation, :)

Obama's in a lose-lose sitch here - if he gets a "liberal" minister then he'll be vilified as {paraphrased}"the communist liberal godless sympathizer" Limburger and his conservative cohorts painted him as -but if he gets Warren, he is betraying the left... IMHO he's close to right - both sides are unhappy with something he's currently doing right now... The left and the right tend to not like SOMETHING a centrist does, and that looks like where he will govern from for now.

Personally, I don't think he will turn his back on the GLBT community - the community will certainly have more of a voice now then they would have if McCain had been elected, and full sexual equality will come in time - I bet in 20 or so years we have a GLBT candidate running for national office and winning...

I certainly didn't think I'd ever see an African-American president before I retired. I have; now, I feel I might see any possibility happen now before I die. It will happen.



I *don't* agree with Rick Warren and his views at all, myself - but I kind of see what Obama is up to, letting him give the convocation at the inauguration - it's a gentle reminder that we do all need to remember that we are all Americans and love our country despite philosophical, spiritual and political differences. Bush's conservative supporters may have lost the election, but they are still part of the process, and since Obama has included them here. I feel he is saying that it's America for *everyone* - not just some subset of America like we just finished seeing for the last 8 years...


That's how I see it. Personally - I wouldn't have invited Warren to do the invocation - just proves he is a better person than me... I'd have left the majority of conservative right out in the cold myself... they certainly left the rest of us out there for the most part of 8 years.

Like you said - Obama will be POTUS for ALL of America - not just the ones that voted for him. I think this is his way of proving it wasn't all talk about governing *all* of America.